I was just reading the new equality laws.
Why don't they just put "Employ anyone but the average, intelligent, eloquent, heterosexual, White British Male?
That will make it much clearer.
..... and I spotted Dan Hannan's latest blog post..... I don't have time for "democracy pretenders/conmen" in the Conservative Party any longer but I do still read his blog occasionally...
The EU is an antidote to democratic governments, argues President Barroso
We're all thick fucktards, it seems!
It pains me to admit it but I kind of agree with Bastardo. Barroso, whatever. Aside from the usual Euro-worry that Hitler was democratically elected, which is probably what's in Barista's mind, fundamentally there's nothing about democracy that prevents 51% of the people enslaving the other 49%. The fact that across Europe voters have allowed themselves to be bribed with other people's money and that a large minority is indeed living off the work of the tax paying majority suggests that we're well on the way to that situation. Far from saving us from it democracy is the means by which it's allowed to happen. Yes, the EU is profoundly anti-democratic and is trampling over the wishes of everyone who doesn't want in, but that's really down to their being authoritarian. Undemocratic liberty wouldn't actually be a problem, and in my book it beats even the kind of democratic authoritarianism common in most or all EU nations (not just EU) any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
ReplyDeleteSorry to disagree with you but I really want to be free of being told what to do, when to do it, what to think,what to say, whilst being ripped off of my hard earned cash.
ReplyDeleteI'm funny like that, perhaps it's an age thing.
Sue,
ReplyDeletethese are admirable traits, which I share, and I'm sure the exiled one agrees. Perchance the red mist came down when he foolishly admitted to agreeing with the donkey-fondler. The thing is, all these things you detest, and rightly so, can be done to you under democracy, indeed can be done easier under democracy due to the spurious sense of legitimacy that is claimed by elected politicians to have a mandate.
The problem is not the lack of democracy, but the lack of liberty over ourselves, our property and our lives.
Of course, the 'solution' offered by Barosso is nothing of the kind, being, by my understanding, a version of the 'benign dictator' myth, where he and his gang of crooks sit above the hurly-burly dispensing justice like the Olympian gods.
I also agree with your point about Dan Hannan. It's time for the so-called eurosceptics to put up or shut up.
ReplyDeleteSue, I too want to be free of being told what to do and when. I'm a libertarian after all, but don't confuse freedom with democracy. They are not remotely the same thing. Freedom is, as you put it, not being told what to do, not being told what to think, not being told what to say and not having your hard earned taken from you for the privilege. Democracy *is* being told what to do and say and think by as little as 30% of the population, and then having half your earnings taken. 13 years of Liebour was democratic. It was *not* free. Europe has had democracy since the Treaty of Rome and longer. It has *not* had freedom.
ReplyDeleteTrooper T, nope, no red mist. Barroomba pointed out a fault with democracy and annoyingly the bastard is right. I loathe every atom in the fucker's body but that doesn't make him wrong if he says the sky is blue. Nor is he wrong about about democracy, but it doesn't follow that because I agree about that I agree about the solution. His answer to the inherent flaw of democracy is more central power and less individual freedom. My answer is far less central power - perhaps for Europe no central power - and more, much more, individual freedom.
Angry Exile. I would rather live in a majority rule society than be dictated to by a bunch of foreign/home grown megalomanical bureaucrats anyday.
ReplyDeletePerhaps if you were actually aware of what their ultimate plans for us are, you would not be quite so complacent whilst being put in chains.
Well said Sue, let them have it girl.
ReplyDeleteBarroso is actually a fucking Marxist but I get your drift.
V
They're all just nutters to me :)
ReplyDeleteSue said...
ReplyDeletePerhaps if you were actually aware of what their ultimate plans for us are,
Oh I see. They told you all about these "plans" over a nice cup of tea and piece of chocky cake down at the dog and duck last night, did they?
How arrogant to assume to know what is in the minds of others.
Angry Exile,
ReplyDeletemy reference to red mist was not about you, it was about Sue, who I thought missed your point, which was the same as mine; that democracy is not the same as liberty.
sUE,
"I would rather live in a majority rule society than be dictated to by a bunch of foreign/home grown megalomanical bureaucrats anyday."
What if the majority support the dictatorship?
Complacent? I'm not the hoping to be saved by democracy when all democracy has done for the last half century or more is to betray those hopes. Democracy is not the mother of freedom, Sue, she's the mother of socialism, because that's what other people - people who've been bribed with your money - keep voting for. Democracy isn't your friend, she's the friend of all those people who've voted themselves a share in your productivity. Democracy has no love for you, she's too busy being the whore of corrupt politicians. Democracy doesn't care for your liberty, not when she must obey the majority who have voted for those chains -the ones you rightly hate so much to - be hung around you.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, look, if you're okay with having your money stolen and your ancient freedoms shat on for as long as the mouth breathing, X-Factor adoring, dole bludging majority keep voting for it, fair enough. I'm still hoping for something rather closer to liberty than the freedom-plated tyranny on offer from that lying bitch Democracy.
"...my reference to red mist was not about you..."
ReplyDeleteSorry, Trooper T. Misunderstood you there.
Sue, Trooper T is more succinct than I am and used seven words to make the point that took me a couple of paragraphs. As he says, what happens when the majority vote for dictatorship? It's happened more than once even since the Treaty of Rome.
FT. The information is on the net, you just have to look for it. The arrogance is on their part, not mine. I just want to be left the fuck alone.
ReplyDeleteAE. Perhaps our interpretation of a democracy is not the same. Of course corrupt politicians exist in a democracy but ideally in a democracy, you have the ability to bring these people down and make them pay for their crimes. The totalitarian EU is far more corrupt and doesn't have to answer to anyone. That's just not logical.
The majority has/or had no choice, we are already part of the EU dictatorship and we are well and truly fucked.
I am with Sue on this.
ReplyDeleteYes, Democratically elected leaders can do pretty bad things, but as long as there is a fair democratic structure they too can be kicked out, by the voters.
The EU is totalitarian. By definition the EU elites wishes are always achieved, by hook or by crook. There is nothing the EU has wanted that it either has not got, or is still working on.
We need to get out of the EU ASAFP.
"We need to get out of the EU ASAFP"
ReplyDeleteAgreed... but, just remind me, who was it that took us into the EU? Oh, I remember: our democratically-elected leaders.
Daniel1979 said...
ReplyDeleteI am with Sue on this.
Yes, Democratically elected leaders can do pretty bad things, but as long as there is a fair democratic structure they too can be kicked out, by the voters.
Aye. I noticed how bloody lightning fast it was for "voters" to fuck Brown out of power.
VERY bloody successful THAT idea, right??
"Perhaps our interpretation of a democracy is not the same. "
ReplyDeleteA few years ago it was. Since then I've come to realise that human nature means democracy will almost always give way to socialism and dictatorship. People will tend to vote for the soft option in just the same way that water or electricity always flows along the path of least resistance, and the soft option is government stealing money from someone else. That's a hell of a vote winner and so no matter how pure a democracy begins it will end up with people voting for state sanctioned theft. Political corruption is in fact entirely optional.
"...ideally in a democracy, you have the ability to bring these people down and make them pay for their crimes."
Ah, ideally, yes. In practice how's it actually working out? Not well, I feel. Besides, as I said, the political corruption is optional. Democracy does not give you the ability to bring down the majority who are voting for a share in your productivity and for the government to take it from you by force, and it never can. If the majority have voted in favour of it you have no say in the matter.
"The totalitarian EU is far more corrupt and doesn't have to answer to anyone. That's just not logical."
Never said it was. Barroso and I recognise the same fundamental flaw of democracy but it does not follow that his solution is also mine. He would have a totalitarian EU. I would have nothing at all... ideally ;-) ... but realistically a state so thoroughly bound by its own law that it lacks any power to infringe its citizen's freedoms as casually as the world's great democracies have been doing for far longer than I've been alive, and whose government is less important during normal peacetime than your local council is now.
PS
ReplyDelete"The majority has/or had no choice..."
But they did. Sure, they were often lied to in the early days - Ted Heath springs to mind - but they voted for the governments that then voted for the EU even though they knew that those governments would be pro-Europe, and they did so just because the desire for what those governments promised to do for them - free this, free that, jam tomorrow - was more tempting. Who cared about that big barbed hook, the fat juicy worm was irresistible. So they voted for the hook, and then they came back and voted for it again. Sometimes it was a blue hook and sometimes it was a red one, and most recently it was blue and yellow, but the hook was always visible and the majority always voted for it despite the fact the worm got thinner and less juicy all the time, and was never, ever, ever worth suffering the hook in the first place.
And that's why democracy can go take a running fuck. It hasn't made me free, it's just tried to legitimise my enslavement with the excuse that it's okay to be a slave if the majority want it.
The "democracy" we have is a sham. One vote every 5 years for the same bunch of fuckers.
ReplyDeleteThese guys are simply our representatives - we can't all fit into Westminster so they go for us. Well now, in the Internet age, we CAN all go to Westinster & vote. We need to move on from doffing our caps to these corrupt self-inflated fat-cats and take power ourselves.
Furor Teutonicus said...
ReplyDeleteAye. I noticed how bloody lightning fast it was for "voters" to fuck Brown out of power.
VERY bloody successful THAT idea, right??
Right. The voters kicked him out. The system though slow, worked. Should we consider his route to no. 10 Democratic or undemocratic?
Trooper Thompson said...
"We need to get out of the EU ASAFP"
Agreed... but, just remind me, who was it that took us into the EU? Oh, I remember: our democratically-elected leaders.
Right. And in 1974 the voters kicked Heath out of office in part because of the Labour offer of a referendum and renegotiation on Communities membership.
I am not and cannot argue that Democracy is perfect because it clearly is not. But the alternative post democratic model being installed by the EU is much worse. With democracy we can all join a party and influence it through our votes and by joining in. We can support those in the party we agree with and vote or speak out against those we do not. We can stand as independents and just as importantly, if you have no interest you can stay at home.
In the post-democratic world it is the same people in the top positions elevated through the political class. You can not get rid of them and you cannot exercise any change or meaningful protest. They do not answer to the voters so will have no need to make decisions based on consideration to them or their welfare.
Democracy like I say isn't perfect and when the people in power are not your cup of tea it can be painful and bitter. But, everyone in a democracy has their own chance to make a difference, to join with others and have the freedom to try to influence voters to vote in a particular way or for a particular motion or person. Difficult, drawn out, expensive, but that option is still there.
Democracy in the UK is sick and is dying. There is already a political class mindset and the three main parties are closer than ever. Gone is the desire to serve and beat the opposition if and where their mates might lose their own cushy jobs. But, I am able to work with other groups and I do my bit in my time to try and influence people to see things differently to not accept the Westminster consensus. IMHO things would be worse, not better if the link between leaders and people via the ballot box was weakened any further... And I anticipate it will be.
"I am not and cannot argue that Democracy is perfect because it clearly is not. But the alternative post democratic model being installed by the EU is much worse."
ReplyDeleteI'd say one of the imperfect things about democracy is that it's lead to this post democratic model that the EU want to inflict. If that kind of thing is inevitable with democracies, and I've come to believe it usually is, then we might as well consider them to be the same thing in the same way that fresh milk and sour milk are both milk. One is just the bad stuff while it's still good and vice versa. I don't know about it eventually turning to cheese - you can push any analogy too far :-)
Even being optimistic and taking the view that a democracy is not just a socialist dictatorship waiting for the votes to show up, you're assuming there is only the choice between the imperfect democracy and the even less desirable post democratic EU model and that no options outside these two exist. The Swiss model suggests otherwise, and the Swiss haven't gone as far as they could. What's to stop Britain or even all of Europe adopting something similar and seeing how far toward genuine individual liberty they could take it? Oh yeah, no one's voting for it.
Bloody democracy!
Angry Exile - I am not assuming the choice is a binary one, though of course I do not expand in the previous comment, so you would not know that.
ReplyDeleteI join with you that the Swiss have a desirable model and I am all for a more direct style of Government. No one is voting for it, because such changes are not proposed by the tri-party cartel we currently have.
There are a few movements out there pushing for reforms in that direction and I hope they will be successful. To my mind though first and foremost we have to get free from the EU, because until we are ultimately we are beholden to their diktat - if we could break free I would hope we could evolve the UK model to being much more direct.
Knew there'd be some common ground around here somewhere :-) Yeah, a Swiss type federal republic is very attractive to me, and the direct democracy has it's points in that it disperses power far more widely, which makes the transition to dictatorship much slower and more difficult. But better to go a bit further and have a liberty guaranteeing constitution that's very hard to change. Australia has that much right - constitutional amendments are a real bugger to pass here. Combine that with a more firmly worded US type constitution and a Swiss canton type federal republic and the Barrosos of the world could go piss up a rope.
ReplyDelete